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Main Forum - Category:Politics & Issues
a pastor/priest
Aristotle is one of the prominent persons in the history who contributed on idea about good government. in fact, he advocated during his time a government which promote the good of all the citizens. however, he believes that a government that promote the good of all can only be achieved if politics and ethics are not separated to each other. that is why, his political philosophy is based on his nichomachean ethics. now, pastors or a priest a person in the society who advocates that morality and politics should not be separated. this is the reason why they condemn any law which are for legality but outside the scope of morality. many current issues in the society falls more under the category of legality and not its morality. and many believes that such things should be condemned because many times it is only for the good of those who are in position or rich. that is why many are looking for a leader that will be the means that will stop such cases. and among them are priests or pastors. somehow, their idea are like aristotle. the question is, can we allow them(priest/pastors) to rule the state/government? (remember that there is separation of the church and the state as the constitution says)
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 its up to the people for them to choose canditates they wish to vote!!! cud u explain further what is nichomachean ethics??? 
deadlysweet
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Sep-15-04@8:52PM
Nichomachean Ethics is one of Aristotle's great works, in which he talks about several virtues.
examples: courage,temperance, generosity etc.
Is there a problem between the church and the govt?
As far as I can rememeber theres always been a separation of powers between the church and the state, w/c means that both cant meddle w/ their affairs internal or external, unless otherwise either of the parties asked for it.
connusgloriamus
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Sep-15-04@10:40PM
that is then the statement, if churchmen will rule the state, it will mean that the separation of state and church may be violated.....(remember the patronato real during the spanish regime in the philippines)
TommyOishiSato
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Sep-25-04@8:29AM
 but may i insert something???what you said were true, but since the declaration of our own freedom and the government of Aguinaldo this problem finds no answer and until now it is still a big discussion, yes DeadlySweet, you can have religions and government in ONE ROOF...This is the thing not present in your arguments...the word is "COMMUNISM"...here our country will be govern by a Group composed of Representatives from Various Sectors from the church, labor,civilians,military,and others, ALL will have fair EQUAL treatment, income, benefits, lifestyles and collective work force, our medical graduates, technicians, seafarers and other kinds of labor force will have equal share and will not go abroad to work, we will create our own common company to export, all voices and problems from each sectors will be heard and will get action...no more rich no more poor all are equal...maybe you will tell me that communism does not believe in God...if Filipinos are the first to use People's Power then WE will be the FIRST to have a COMMUNISTIC GOVERNMENT WHO BELIEVES IN GOD...WE can EVOLVE to this kind of Governance coz the People still the voice to be heard...THIS COULD BE THE LONG COVETED ANSWER TO YOUR ARGUMENT OF CHURCH AND STATE-WELCOME COMMUNISM...ONE CHURCH, ONE GOVERNMENT, ONE FILIPINO PEOPLE...   
deadlysweet
•reply
Sep-26-04@1:40PM
Hi Tommy I never argue that government and religion cannot be under one roof, coz i know they can , BUT they have separation of powers.
(check on my arguments again pls. coz u have misinterpreted my statements) I didnt know that communism is included in the argument.Anyway, communism is not a religion . COMMUNISM IS "A theory which advocates a state of society in which there should be no private ownership, all property being vested in the community and labour organized for the common benefit of all members; the professed principle being that each should work according to his capacity, and receive according to his wants." A good example is China- their form of government is govern by the state not by religion. And Phil is a lucky country coz we have a democratic form of government where everyone can enjoy freedom of speech, religion press etcccccccc. And for me Democratic form of government is still the best form of government never communism. This is DEMOCRACY "A GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE."  LASTLY,for the record I will never adhere or follow communism, coz like you i love freedom. Thanks 
TommyOishiSato
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Sep-27-04@7:53AM
Yes Deadlysweet, i do understand the argument why the church men tends to mend the affairs of the state,why we have so many religions can we not put them in one roof?,and the terrorism which pointed out to be the doings of religious people...with all due respect Communism is not a Theory it is already a Form of Government used in old Europe and still being used as of today...theory means an idea or plan or conjecture or a guess or principles of art or science rather than it's practice...Communism is a form of governance not a theory...not a religion too...i injected Communism thinking maybe you forgot to know that in this form of government a church and the state is ONE, used by old Greek,old Mexico, the Incas,and the Czars, even Plato outlined the communism...this was used by Jewish religion of Essenes and early christians and baptist and until now Pastors/Priest are teaching the essense of communism in forms of equality to all, classless form of LOVE and even the SALVATION itself is a Truely communistic way, it is a common and classless acceptance of sinners, rich or poor, slave or master it's is for all no more no less...why argue when you can have the ANSWER???THE THINGS THAT MATTERS HERE IS, IT IS UP TO YOU TO ACCEPT THIS FORM OF GOVERNMENT...I did not force you to accept it's form or believe it but just to answer your Questions of the problems arising from the powers of Church and State...i am not even a Communist myself...but have you been to prison as a political prisoner?, or a businessman put in prison during Marcos reign?a mother of salvage victim? or a rape victim? a wife of a man gunned down in a posh village coz of traffic? a relative of the Vizconde?...and many more...you did not feel the PAINS of these violent killings coz you are not in their shoes...if you are one Victim then it is normal to you to think of another form of govenment rather than living in so called free democratic way...WE ALL WANT "A BETTER MEDICINE A GOOD FAIR CHANGES" to our LIVES...be it in Communistic Way or other ways...
 oki doki dok???
deadlysweet
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Sep-27-04@10:01PM
hi tommy! saw u online last night and i was hoping you would answer my argument there and then, but u never say anything. Anyway,I'm lost now, it seems to me u never really understand the contents of my argument. Still, this i a free world and everyone is entitled to an opinion . Thanks for exchanging views with me, appreciate that. Good Luck!!!
TommyOishiSato
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Sep-28-04@9:27AM
we can chat a yahoo messenger at oishi_sato@yahoo.com see you there....take care
in my view, it wont happen.
connusgloriamus
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Sep-16-04@6:41PM
it can happen (again - the PATRONATO REAL{A PAPAL BULL DECLARATION DURING THE 16TH CENTURY).
deadlysweet
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Sep-16-04@9:14PM
how can it happen, when the pope had no power or control in the world religion and besides this is the 21st century. and one more thing, in the phil alone how many religions and sects do we have in there? and why do we have such freedom of religion and religious tolerance? and do u think they would want to be under one roof w/ the Catholics? I doubt it.
"And dont forget the muslims."
connusgloriamus
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Sep-16-04@9:54PM
(remember not to attack the person, it is fallacy of argumentum ad hominem)....let us clear the proposition. the subject is whether can we allow churchmen to rule the state. and to the question about how it can happen. the principle of act and potency can be the answer. besides if a pastor or priest will rule, he will govern not on the basis of his religious donomination but ecumenically and on the basis of what the constitution says. considering the muslims, the past national assembly of clergy at world trade center in pasay city tells us that muslims are ready to be with the christians to build a strong republic. but that is not the point of discussion. the subject is that if we can allow them to govern.
deadlysweet
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Sep-16-04@11:41PM
What u mean by attacking the person? Sorry but I'm not attacking any particular person here. I'm only stating that I dont think(w/c means in my view) the church will ever govern the state.And let me state also that my views are based on things that i see and analysis from experts regarding this issue w/c i think is reliable enough.
Why do u think we have this problem on terrorism? its because of religion isnt it? Now u take it from there.Full stop.
connusgloriamus
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Sep-18-04@9:54PM
in logic and argumentation, there is a rule that we should avoid using "you" when we address an argument directly to the person who made the statements like "do u think they would want to be under one roof w/ the Catholics?......What u mean...."
the statements do not mean to question the credibility and reliability of the other statements. the problem of terrorism is not because of religion. religion is not its root. the existence of terrorism is rooted in the different philosophies and ideals of every parties involve (the anti and the pro). we cannot say that it is a conflict between the Moslems and the Christians because in the very first place, not all islamic people are pro for terrorism (the primary involve in terrorism is the moslem).
deadlysweet
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Sep-19-04@8:59PM
1)Let me point out to you that unlike u I dont follow the rules of logic. I dont rely too much on books or journals either and I make opinions or comments based on day to day life events.
With my question" do u think they (meaning other religions)would want to be under one roof w/ the Catholics?" SA PALAGAY MO PWEDE BANG PAGSAMAHIN ANG MGA KATOLIKO at ibang relihyon sa iisang BUBONG? 2)Ok I accept that. 3)IN MY VIEW: Religion is the root and cause of terrorism, coz all terrorist are religious people and none are atheist.(a godless person) 4)I'ts correct when u said that not all moslems or muslims are pro terrorism but you are contracdicting your own view by saying that "the primary involve in terrosrism is the moslem" well this is for you: Definition of Moslem (muslim) noun.1)Moslem - a believer or follower of Islam Synonyms: Islamist, Mohammedan, Muhammadan, Muhammedan, Muslim adj 2)Moslem - of or relating to or supporting Islamism; "Islamic art" Synonyms: Islamic, Muslim Definition of Islam Is´lam n. 1. 1. The religion of the Mohammedans; Mohammedanism; Islamism. Their formula of faith is: There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet. noun: the religion of Muslims collectively which governs their civilization and way of life noun: the monotheistic religion of Muslims founded in Arabia in the 7th century and based on the teachings of Muhammad as laid down in the Koran. Anyway, thanks for exchaging opinions w/ me appreciate that and hopefully will continue in same friendly approach.
connusgloriamus
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Oct-3-04@2:06AM
when i say about the Moslem, it does not contradict the statement that religious is the root of terrorism considering that the statement means on the number involve and not the entirety of the moslem.
considering the constitution, are moslems, catholic and other denomination are not under the same roof of the constitution. yes, is is true that the constitution says on the autonomy in the south and the constitution respect that. but the constitution, even that have an autonomy, still encompassed them. thus they can be under the same roof. actually, they call their supreme being as Allah and not God as our religion calls Him. but it doesnt mean that they dont have the concept of God. they do have only that He call them in diff. terminology. maybe the dictionary tells only the denotation of God and not its definition. but there is really a God for them as what my old friend says when i meet him during our science camp in UP los baños. i also believe that despite our diffence in opinion, we can be friend. :: leave a comment You need to be logged-in order to post comments.Still do not have an account? Register for free
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