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Main Forum - Category:Politics & Issues
The CBCP, the State and the Population
Hhmm...
Hindi naman sa pagiging masama pero nagagalit na talaga ako sa Bishops natin lately... Una sa lahat nakikialam sila sa pag manage ng state sa issues nito... (hindi tama yun!) Pangalawa, parang ang bobo ng mga bishops na ito... Hindi sa pagiging against sa population management proposals at reproductive health bills kundi sa PAGGAWA NG ACTION KAHIT OBVIOUS NA HINDI NILA BINASA YUNG PROPOSALS.. Pangatatlo, nagkakalat sila ng maling information! Natawa ako nung sinabi ng CBCP na bumabagal daw ang population growth rate ng Pilipinas.. Anu ang basis nila?! (Siguro may angel sa imagination nila na nagsabi ng "tamang statistics") Ginagawa nilang scapegoat ang corruption sa poverty ng Pilipinas... Hindi nila naiisip na madalas ang mahirap na pamilya ang mas maraming anak... Dahil sila ang walang access sa mga contraceptives... Ang effect nun ay nawawalan ng chance ang mga taong ito na guminhawa ang kanilang buhay... Mas nagugutom sila... Mas madali silang magkasakit... Pangapat, parang hindi tama na hindi nila tanggapin ang mga politicians na pro-population management ng Holy Communion... Binigyan ba sila ng karapatan ng Diyos na gawin yun? Akala ko ba everyone can accept God... Yung mga politicians nga na ito ang may pakialam sa kalagayan ng mga Pilipino... Panglima, ewan ko na... Hindi ata nila naiisip na yung power nila ay nag cacause ng downfall ng country natin... habang nandun sila sa masasarap nilang mga tirahan... (for your info, masarap ang buhay nila... naka aircon pa sila noh... have you ever heard of a priest/bishop who experiences involuntary hunger?) haaiiyy... I no longer want to consider myself as a Roman Catholic... The principles of the Church or the interpretation of the principles by the CBCP just makes me angry... http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20080715-148500/Church-population-stand-called-parochial http://services.inquirer.net/print/print.php?article_id=20080725-150537 :: comments ::
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Clarification on my last statement...
The fact that I'm angry with the institutions action does not mean that I no longer have faith in God... God is not dependent on the institution... It's the other way around... but I think the current church is not using the mind that God gave them... God is God... he is not under the power of religion...
light_technician
•reply
Jul-28-08@6:22AM
tsk. its a pity really to hear this kind of thing
 , well, as for me, i can boldly say they are not worthy to be called BISHOPS of God, maybe of satan... that's 101 pct, true 
gusto ko sanang magkomento pero babalikan ko muna yung kasaysayan ng mundo bago ako mag koments nakalimutan ko na kasi ang kaugnayan ng simbahan sa pulitika...
i feel that the religious sector in the philippines has a great political influence amongst the filipinos
and that i think opens more problems ofcourse the catholic sect has a different approach to birth controls coz..they want the natural thing but the thing is most of the time people don't know how to properly use it... and i think when the church started to meddle with the affairs of he government it will just result to crash and burn tsk tsk too much politics and sometimes i feel the use God's name in vain
light_technician
•reply
Jul-28-08@6:34AM
what's missing in the picture? U have to consider satan's undertaking, marami siyang "minions". kya hindi nakapagta2ka kung saan maraming relihion, doon marami corrupt.
 , at hindi lahat ng relihion ay sa Dios na kaagad. 
wow! 50 GOLDEN YEARS NA BAGO KO TO MATAPOS! Ang haba, nakakatamad!
CBCP - sila ang natitirang grupo ng mga kastilang nagpahirap sa mga Pilipino. Hangga't nandyan sila, patuloy nilang pahihirapan at lilinlangin ang mga Pilipino.
Ako'y Katoliko, pero hindi ako nagsisi dahil naman ako sumusunod sa lahat ng sinasabi ng simbahan. To be RIGHTEOUS IS BETTER THAN TO BE RELIGIOUS! Kapag nabawasan birth rate, bababa din income nila sa binyag, kasal at libing! yun ang klarong rason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you don't want to be considered Catholic anymore --
then don't be one. It's a free country.. Maybe you can be a politician instead. 
The bishops are just there to reiterate the beliefs of the Catholic Church. kung ayaw naman ng mga taong sundin yun ay wala silang magagawa. It's their duty to protect what they believe is theirs to protect. Let them do their thing.
I'm against the use of the pill. Naaabuso kasi. Kapag nabuntis na kasi ang ilan sa mga kababayan nating babae ay umiinom agad ng pills para malaglag ang dinadala nila. Abortion na yun. I'm all for population control but I'm also batting for the control of the use of contraceptives.
utobz_xl
•reply
Jul-28-08@9:57PM
condom lang... lahat ng lalaki suplayan ng condom. may penalty kapag walang bitbit na condom. mag imbento ng condom para sa babae
kaso malulugi mga balloon stations.. reklamo na naman.
guillerus_dauphin
•reply
Aug-1-08@8:10AM
hey, do you still remember me? we've changed opinions and ideas two years ago,july 2006,if i'm not mistaken,....anyway, may condom na rin para sa mga babae, dalawa ang rims/rings nito.... yun lang po...
We cannot put the blame on the priests alone. Siyempre yun ang faith nila kaya wala tayong magagawa kung yun ang gusto nilang ipatupad. Just the same with the members na gustong sumunod.
Ang kelangan lang naman diyan, proper education. Siguro kung matututo lang tayo maging responsable sa mga ginagawa natin, hindi natin pinoproblema ang paglobo ng populasyon.
Una sa lahat, sana man lang kung hindi mo po kinikilala ang obispo, wag mo naman pong bastusin
para sa akin sa post na ito nababastos hindi lang ang obispo kundi pati ang simbahan. Sa Pilipinas sa ating Constitution there is a seperation between church and the state. In realty oo it been implemented pero isipin naman natin lahat ba ng ginagawa ng ating pamahalaan ay moral , ang iba ay hindi so andyan ang inang simbahan upang pansinin ito kung baga nagsisilbi din silang boses ng masa kung saan ang hinain ng mga tao ay kanila din hinain na pinapaabot sa pamahalaan... HINDI MAGREREACT ANG SIMBAHAN KUNG TAMA ANG SISTEM NG PAMAHALAAN About contraception, ang nais lang ng simbahan ay magkaroon ang bawat tao ng "self-disciplined" kung saan kung mag aanak kayo cguraduhin nyong kayang nyong buhayin. Yun lang nothing at all... SELF CONTROL ika nga... Masyado mo namang denenounce ang pagiging catholic mo...ok people are not save by their catholic their were save by their faith in GOD at yung tinatawag na pagbabalik loob masama ka man o mabuti andyan ang DYOS para sayo... ang simbahan ay para sa mga taong makasalanan upang maisip nila na magbalik loob sa DYOS sa itama ang pagkakamali... Ito lang ang opinion ko... ginagalang ko pa naman din ang post mo...ok lang n magpost ka ng mga issues against CHURCH pero wag mo na po sanang ulitin na tawagin ang mga BISHOP and aother religious even the ROMAN CATHOLIC FAITH BELIVER sa kung ano pa man...like["parang ang bobo ng mga bishops na ito..."] KUNG makakahanap ka lang sa internet ng "THE SOCIAL TEACHINGS OF CHURCH" palagay ko baka matauhan ka man lang sa mga sinasabi mong walang concern ang SIMBAHAN ng SAMBAYANANG KRISTYANO at ng bawat isang mamamayan... sabihin mo/nyo nang oa ang opinion ko... walang corny sa pag-uusap ng RELIGION kung idedepensa mo ito...
frigid
•reply
Jul-28-08@3:11AM
"ang iba ay hindi so andyan ang inang simbahan upang pansinin ito kung baga nagsisilbi din silang boses ng masa kung saan ang hinain ng mga tao ay kanila din hinain na pinapaabot sa pamahalaan..."
HINDI LAHAT NG TAO SA PILIPINAS AY KATOLIKO
master_dshot
•reply
Jul-28-08@3:15AM
 ndi nga lahat katoliko pro kung iisipin din nmn ntin na pare-pareho lng nmn tau ng dinaaing ng bawat isa dba? at pare-pareho din nmn ang ssbihin ng bawat lider ng simbahan eh prang wala nring pinagkaiba sa cnabi ni katie..
katiepinkie
•reply
Jul-28-08@3:19AM
katoliko ka man o hindi, ano man ang relihiyon ng tao...
iisa lang sa palagay ako ang hinain natin...at nararamdaman nakikita yun ng simbahan...walang hinangad ang simbahan para sa ikakasama ng lipunan... sabi ni Mother Theresa: "lets make muslim a better muslim" ... Sa akin hindi man lahat ng tao dito ay Katoliko, mahalaga may pagkakaunawaan at may pag kakaisa, hindi nagsisiraan...
master_dshot
•reply
Jul-28-08@3:24AM
anti-christ aq pro ang hinaing q 2lad din ng sa katoliko ang 10 commandments sinusunod q prin kea ano man ang mangyari pare-pareho prin tau walang pinagkaiba.. sa tingin q nmn ndi pedeng mga katoliko laging busog mga anti laging gutom kung same lang din nmn ang kalagayan sa buhay 
puNkista_chicK
•reply
Aug-4-08@5:08AM
okay ka lang? better read the constitution first before you say anything. first and foremost it is written in the constitution and a universal political law that THE CHURCH AND THE STATE SHOULD BE SEPARATED!
the only reason why Filipinos value so much the church is because it is instilled with our culture. ate, kuya ang CHURCH IS NOT PERFECT! as an economist and political scientist i totally agree with james_park. A GOOD CHURCH WOULD NOT HAMPER ONE STATE OR POLICY THAT IS INTENDED TO ALLEVIATE THE CURRENT STATUS OF OUR STATE JUST BECAUSE THE POLICY IS NOT IN LINE WITH THE DOGMAS THAT THEY ARE TEACHING. i hate to say this but what i am seeing today is that THE CHURCH IS OVERUSING THEIR POWER. THEY DO NOT FEAR ANYONE. WHY? BECAUSE THE CHURCH KNOWS THAT NOONE WOULD QUESTION THEM. I REALLY HOPE WE'LL ALL BE OPEN MINDED.
asereht1970
•reply
Aug-8-08@3:58AM
Hello! Ano ang sinasabi mong dapat may separation of the church and state? FYI, since time immemorial wala ng separation ang church at state (specifically catholic church). Kaya nga sila lumaki nung unang panahon because tumuntong sila sa imperyo ng Roma. Lahat ng lumaban sa Catholic church eh ipinapapatay. Read your history books.
 That's why ang whole name po ng catholic church sa tagalog eh IGLESIA KATOLIKA APOSTOLIKA ROMANA o ROMAN CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH. Kaya di na mawawala ang pakikialam ng simbahang katoliko sa pamahalaan.
The Catholic Church always meddled in State affairs even if their opinions are not taken into consideration most of the time. The role of the leaders of the Catholic Church is to guide the faithful into living a life with Christian values, through moral ways. But it seems, the Bishops are going way out of bounds in meddling with governmental functions.
In the reproductive health bill, at least the President is one with the leaders of the Catholic Church that natural methods is still the best way to control population. But the Catholic Church must not end in merely stating its opinion on the matter because it is the duty of its leaders to educate its followers or parishioners on the morality aspect of the population issue. As regards other matters, the support on Lozada shown by these bishops last month seems to be forgotten already. These supposed religious protected a liar and a thief in the person of Lozada. Sometimes I wonder if these religious really have straight thinking.
katiepinkie
•reply
Jul-29-08@8:13AM
The role of the leaders of the Catholic Church is to guide the "faithful" into living a life with Christian values, through moral ways.
Some/All "Faithful" are those who in the government system. There are trying to guide them in a moral way [as you say] because if an outcome of there laws or decisions were immoral, the effect will be seen on us, it will give domino effect not only to some but to all countrymen "sa ating KAPWA"...Para po sa akin naiintindihan ko po ang simbahan. And also if Lozada is telling the truth or not, the only thing we can do is to observe what is happening, the scenario in our government...Also I suggest to have our self control and self disciplined, in issue of birth control.
The problem with the church is they tend to go beyond their boundary I understand their argument that contraceptive could prevent pregnancy and that would disrupt the cycle of life. But their argument with the bill is actually irrelevant if you view the current status of the country. What we need is something that would not stop but prevent the population growing rapidly. Contraceptive is better than abortion in which the church thought that the purpose of the reproductive bill is to amend abortion. I would suggest that before they react they should read the proposed bill first than saying something unorthodox and irrelevant. I was shock nung sinabi na di daw bibigyan ng communion yung mga taong lumagda sa bill na yun. Parang nakakatawa na ata ang dating ng simbahan nun na para silang bata na wag pasalihin yung mga taong di nila gusto. Ganun na pala ang modern church ngayon.
katiepinkie
•reply
Aug-4-08@4:30AM
Hindi naman lahat ng puna ay sa Simbahang Katoliko di dahil sa sya lang ang nakikialam sa isyu na ito...ito ay bahagi ng amin/natin/kanilang paniniwala...na hindi kelan man binalewala lalo ng mga namumuno sa Simbahan...Sa aking opinion gusto nila itong ipabatid sa bawat isa[Katoliko man o hindi] bilang pagbabahagi ukol sa pagpapahalaga sa buhay ng tao. Hindi nila pwedeng ipagkait ang holy communion sa pagkakaalam ko sapagkat ito ay tanda ng pag-alala sa pagpapakasakit ni Kristo na sya nang naging kaugalian ng mga Kristyano, isa ding pinakamahalagang bahagi ng misa at isang paraan upang maramdaman ng bawat isa na sila ay pantay pantay...Yun lang po...wag naman po sana nating batikusin ng husto ang Simbahan...
DYOBAN
•reply
Aug-5-08@8:23AM
Sabi mo "Hindi nila pwedeng ipagkait ang holy communion sa pagkakaalam ko sapagkat ito ay tanda ng pag-alala sa pagpapakasakit ni Kristo na sya nang naging kaugalian ng mga Kristyano" Well too bad kasi yun ang ipinarating ng Obispo sa mga lumagda sa reproductive bill na ipapasa sa kongreso, like I said naiintindihan ko ang argument nila na importante ang buhay pero nagiging contradiction na kasi ang sinasabi nila kung ibase mo ito sa status ng population ng bansa. Meron ngang narutal way of family planning pero hindi naman lahat naka open minded sa ganitong pamamaraan, hindi naman lahat naka avail ang self-control, hindi naman lahat nakakaintindi sa ganitong pamamaraan. Intindihin din dapat ng simbahan na hindi lang corruption ang problema ng bansa kundi ang pagdami ng tao, kasi sa loob ng isang bahay kung tatlo lang sila meron silang stability at magkakaroon sila ng maraming resources.
Ilagay natin sa isang pagtitipon yung naka RSVP lang ang dapat dumalo meaning bilang na yun kung 120 lang ang nasa listahan at yung pagkain dun sakto lang di ba walang magugutom lahat sila busog? Pero kung me biglang dumating na hindi inexpecct na magdadala ng lima, anim o sampung katao mawawala na sa order yun at yung budget lang na dapat sa 120 na katao magkukulang na at malamang mangyayari me magugutom talaga sa kanila. Ganun lang yun ang pananaw sa bill na yan at hindi ito isang paraan ng abortion, iniisip ang kapakanan ng mamamayan dahil sa hirap ng buhay ngayon hindi na maaagapan ng isang magulang ang kunting kita nila sa isang buwan para maipakain sa lima nilang anak. Alternative solution ang bill na ito at hindi ito kumukha ng buhay ng tao or ano man ways to lessen the population growth of the country na dapat sanang tingnan din ng simbahan or ng obispong kumontra nito. 
i totally agree with james_park. The cHurch in this sense is becoming insensitive the needs of the masses. i don't disregard the help that the church has done in history. however, the question is who forwards real morality. Because if we analyze things promoting contraceptives is somewhat moral. Think about contraceptives control the spread of std that kills/killed a lot of people. Contraceptives prevent the birth of unwanted children. It is a higher value to prevent children who if born will experience utmost hunger and poverty. Take for example africa. Many have died in africa because of std and poverty. Africans won't use contraceptives because Catholicism is booming there and the catholic church won't allow them. In this sense, there is a higher morality that should be protected and that is the value of a good life. as for the idea of abstinence, it won' work, because sex is a primordial need of human beings actually of any species( see Freud).
As I've stated above, I'm for population control. I'm fine with condoms but not with pills. It is very much prone to abuse. I used to work for casinos(PAGCOR). We had numerous clashes with the Church before. Kahit na madalas kaming magtalo ng mga obispo ay nirerespeto ko pa rin sila because of one thing......they are making a stand for what they believe is right(even if it is unpopular to do so). It is something rarely seen sa iba.
Yes it suppose to have a separation between the church and the state as stated in our constitution...
As you stated in your opinion, "A GOOD CHURCH WOULD NOT HAMPER ONE STATE OR POLICY THAT IS INTENDED TO ALLEVIATE THE CURRENT STATUS OF OUR STATE JUST BECAUSE THE POLICY IS NOT IN LINE WITH THE DOGMAS THAT THEY ARE TEACHING." Scenario: What if the legislative body of the government make a law about death penalty and impose it to each every who commit a crime. Then the judiciary approve the said law to be implemented, just because they don't have any unreasonable doubt. And the last phase the executive body who is the executor of the law, the president execute it in behalf of of him/her. Question: Does the law they passed was moral and just to every one? Answer: In my side it is ABSOLUTELY NOT, first from the constitution, Article 3 Section 1. No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of the law, nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of the laws. This section from Philippine Constitution make my answer clear...Sino kang presidente, kongresista, o abugado man na may karapatang kunin ang buhay ng isang tao. Makatao ba ang gagawin nila... rethink... My point is,Catholic think of a moral one that will give a just way to people. And share it to all people even your not a Catholic. Sinusubukan ng Simbahan na magkaroon ng kht konting remedyo and mga sitwasyong nakikita nilang sabihin na natin immoral o kontra sa bahagi ng ating,aming,kanilang kultura o tradisyon. Pwede mong kontrolin ang sarili mo sa mga kamunduhang bagay. Kung mag asawa kayo at kung aware naman kayo sa mga STD na yan eh di magpacheck up kayo kung isa man sa inyo eh positive, bkt pa kayo ma eengage into love making, ilalagay nyo lang sa alanganin ang inyong kalusugan. Kung teenager kayo, alam nyong ang pang engage sa love making ay para lang sa mag asawa at hindi sa inyo kasi hindi pa natin kayang bumuhay ng pamilya. sa mag-asawa naman bkt pa kayo gagamit ng condom kung wala naman kayong nakakahawang sakit, be aware of some device kung saan malalaman nyo kung yung babae eh fertile o hindi... i absorb somehow some of your opinion to be open minded and this is my side... I discourage everyone to be hateful of what Catholic Teaching impose, it's part of their belief, traditions and practice. Some religious sector are against to what Roman Catholic belief, practice and their traditions but this is who we are, even you want it or not, we don't hate your religion we understand that everyone has it own perception over matter or issue. As I remember in my constitution class I'm glad that the Gov. sectors offer to the religious sector to be involve in constitutional convention and I'm proud that Bishop Teodoro Bacani was there. I just share it even you guys can make any perception contrasting to it. Thanks... :: leave a comment You need to be logged-in order to post comments.Still do not have an account? Register for free
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